Against my better judgment, am going to chime in here on a few of the comments if I may; hopefully have not misinterpreted any of the posts for my responses.
I've just watched the film "Night on Earth".
https://www.opensubtitles.org/en/search ... movie-1341
I know this is an unusual case because it's a multi-language film,
that is, several languages are present in the film and every one with
the same weight or importance. There is no principal or predominant
language. "The red violin" is another example of this.
I can’t address the film “Night on Earth”, but as to “Red Violin”, the studio release that I have and reviewed for “English” noted the following.
-Text based placed caption (included atmospherics)
-Image based subtitle (non SDH)
-Foreign parts only.
Both caption and subtitle files incorporated English with foreign language parts within for a relatively seamless viewing.
Included in addition to the English offerings, a Spanish subtitle entry, which I really can’t address as to its’ accuracy.
(Great film with Samuel L. Jackson; definitely not for his $!%[&* Pulp Fiction fan base)
As released, seems that everything is fine and would address most needs, additional clarification further on in this post.
I’m not sure if this addresses your main concern which I would agree, that it would be of great benefit if
additional languages were included, and all addressed in the same manner.
OK, I guess the person who made the subs thought: "Why should I write
the French part for people that speak French? They don't need the
subtitles there". What about hearing impaired people? And what about
my case, people that speak that language but need some help?
And last but not least: why does this happen with every language
but English? I mean, this film has a lot of English subs and
most of them include the English part. Why is English different?
Are English speakers so dumb that they need subtitles to understand
their own language? I just don't get it.
Can’t really address the question as to why no additional languages in their releases. But, being a dumb English speaker though, I would note that many of the issues you pointed out yourself, are also applicable to many of my other dumb English speaking brethren.
What about hearing impaired people? The latest ADA stats indicate roughly 13% of the US population is afflicted with some form of deafness or hearing impairment.
Additionally as you also stated, many folk here also just need a bit of help with the language, such as the myriad of non-native born citizens in our locale who are adapting to the intricacies of the English language.
Personally, with the current state of filmmaking, what with actors mumbling at a break-neck pace between the mandatory CGI explosions, accompanied by pounding heavy metal soundtracks, it’s a wonder folk can follow any dialogue whatsoever bereft of subtitles.
As I said, fortunately these cases are not very frequent and perhaps
this is why they are handled so loosely
But I'd like we could have more multi-lingual subtitles for these films
and the authors to include all languages, not only "foreign parts".
Agreed, the least common denominator. What is the viewing demand for “Red Violin”, versus the latest Marvel release?
$$$
We can always hope for change in the future.
I have no idea. But so I have heard:
- English subs for English spoken movies and episodes should be 100% verbatim (therefore all the "no-no-no", "hm-mm" and "well, I... ehm... listen, you know..." and even stammering like "I d-don't know", etc.
Captioning and subtitles can vary with condensing of some of the extraneous verbiage. The trend for subtitles is the complete version, whereas carryover captioning traditions of live broadcast were somewhat looser per se. Subjective as always, such as how does inclusion benefit. Stuttering? How about the pregnant pause? Should be in context as applicable to convey properly to the end user.
- Subs must be visible as long as possible (thus gaps being 1 ms or even zero).
Did occur this way in legacy captioning back in the day. Rollup captioning could be visible at all times until next roll. Otherwise, current three frame gap min is now generally accepted.
- Subs may be three lines (instead of the general international maximum of two lines)
- Line length much less than the general international maximum of 42 characters.
From legacy days for captions. Two, but generally three line with tracking chevron from the rollup format. Pop on captions carried this over; two preferred but when required, three acceptable. Subtitles predominantly should follow two line rule.
Captions with characters at 28-32 per line, subtitles use nominal standard of 40-44 per line.
Note: For those who object to ALL CAPS, this is standard
captioning, perfectly acceptable, adapted due to live broadcast. This was prior to texting, and it was not construed as SHOUTING as has been decried by the portable hand held device generation.
- Etc. (more that I don't know of)
Additional variations within each subset, either caption or subtitle. Examples such as PSDH or positional captions have a different design intent, and when edited or reformatted improperly can lead to errors in display.
Then, throw in the multiple differing standards with between let’s say a BBC, Netflix, or Universal, and you have a basic melting pot smorgasbord of mixed
text based captions, along with
image based subtitles, all with different interpretations of what is correct as to proper layout and format.
Mind you, these things only apply to ENGLISH subs for ENGLISH spoken videos. I would definitely NOT consider this as a guideline for other languages. On the contrary.
Thanks SB. Basically the English side has to consider all variations or cross pollinations. Many standards to consider, some well documented, whilst others are organizational tribal knowledge handed down through the years. We try to do the best we can.
Obviously, there are the exceptions within those submissions that are at an initial glance obviously flawed. These include the overwhelming majority of the machine translated or machine generated (AI) submissions, which in most cases, but not always, are devoid of the most rudimentary requirements.
Rattled on enough now.
