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suadnovic
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:41 pm

Subtitle Edit + API key

Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:10 am

Automatic Translation in Subtitle Edit can't work anymore like use to work, because Google policy with API key. Please somebady to explain this in detail, and how to get him and use in Subtitle Edit. Thank you.

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SmallBrother
Site Admin
Posts: 2720
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Location: Somewhere on this globe

Re: Subtitle Edit + API key

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:57 am

I think the way to get it to work again is simply paying money to Google.

Besides, I think this free feature now being disabled is a gift from heaven. Machine translations are The Great Nightmare of any serious subtitler. Mind you, the actual translating skills of Google (and similar translation machines) have improved a lot over the last few years, but
subtitling is much more than just translating.

This is especially the case and visible when using English subtitles of English spoken movies and series. Those English subtitles are using drastically different technical guidelines, coming from legal requirements regarding CC (Closed Captions). Typical effects are:
- Short lines (short as in length, number of characters)
- Short durations (rough average around 1,5 seconds)
- Unlogically truncated lines, breaking word groups
- Gaps are absent or very small (0-2 ms, where approx 125 ms or even longer is considered nice and calm)
- All spoken text is written exactly 100% verbatim.

On top of that, English is a rather 'short' language. While in English you can say something in let's say twelve words or 80 characters, in Dutch (and Spanish and German and a bunch of other languages) you would need at least 15 words or 100 characters, or (much) more.

So now, imagine a machine translating those English subs.

First of all, the text.
Because of the (unlogically) truncated text there will be misinterpretations. Because the translating machine doesn't see and understand the movie, there will be context mistakes. For example, "you" in English can be singular, plural, the informal you (the Dutch "jij", the German "du" or the Spanish "tu") or the polite you (the Dutch "u", the German "Sie" or the Spanish "usted"). Or the difference between "I am fine" when somebody asks "How are you", or as an answer to the question "You want one more drink?" ("No, thank you, I am fine"). Etc. etc. etc.

But the worst is yet to come: the technical part, the text formatting, etc.
Because of English being 'short', most translations will be longer, resulting in too long lines, too high CPS (not enough time to read the text), fast 'flashing' of unlogical collections of words. It's hard to do this in writing in this forum, but to get a slight idea, have a look at this example, one of the paragraphs I wrote above. Imagine each line displaying one second, one following the other very rapidly .

On top of that, English is a

rather 'short' language. While in

English you can say some

thing in let's say twelve

words or 80 characters, in

Dutch (and Spanish and

German and a bunch of

other languages) you would

need at least 15 words or

100 characters, or (much)

more.


Now see this, imagine each line displaying five seconds:

On top of that,
English is a rather 'short' language.

While in English you can say something
in let's say twelve words or 80 characters...

in Dutch (and Spanish and German
and a bunch of other languages)...

you would need at least 15 words
or 100 characters, or (much) more.


Now which text is nicer and easier to read...?
And this is just an example, and just the top of the iceberg.

My conclusion and opinion:
No matter how good Google is or ever will be in translating, even including understanding context etc., if the source subtitle file is English text for an English spoken movie, the result will always be very poor.
Only if the source file is made according to certain subtitling standards, including regarding all technical aspects, only then a machine translation has a chance to be decent. Practically, this will probably never be the case with English subs for an English movie.


Thank god for Google's decision.

suadnovic
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:41 pm

Re: Subtitle Edit + API key

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:47 pm

Thank you for your extensive opinion, but my post does not aim to argue about the use of GT. BTW, I think this is one of the most valuable Web services that exist. I can rough find out what a person has ever thought of (say) in any of the world's language. Really, great thing. I use it when making subtitles (and I think many translators who are not honest enough (brave) to admit it, like me). But from raw GT to a usable subtitle is not easy to get. It has to go from line to line and make correction. But this is not the goal of post:
You say, Google wants to bill? Is that true? Should the API key be paid? I did not get that impression, because I could use it for free

https://translate.google.com/?hl=hr

as much as I want. And make corrections

262
<br> 00: 13: 41,854 -> 00: 13: 43,151
kao mogući kandidat,

262
00:13:41,854 -> 00:13:43,151
kao mogući kandidat,

263
00: 13: 43,222 -> 00: 13: 45,087 Da
Republikanska stranka
mora biti prilično očajan.

263
00:13:43,222 -> 00:13:45,087
Republikanska stranka
mora biti prilično očajan.

264
00: 13: 45,157 -> 00: 13: 47,250 U redu
Stranka nije očajna,
samo Conover.

264
00:13:45,157 -> 00:13:47,250
Stranka nije očajna,
samo Conover.

The excess text must be removed manually, rest can fix (fix common errors) SE, otherwise SW will not open file.

This is somewhat confusing, I wonder what is the purpose of the API key?

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SmallBrother
Site Admin
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:59 pm
Location: Somewhere on this globe

Re: Subtitle Edit + API key

Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:15 pm

suadnovic wrote:my post does not aim to argue about the use of GT

You are right. I am sorry I went (also / a bit ;-) ) off-topic, but I couldn't resist, because of the context of your post (the integration in Subtitle Edit) and since I see so much trouble because of it. And yes, I agree, Google Translate etc. is a great thing for the purposes you mentioned.

suadnovic wrote:You say, Google wants to bill? Is that true? Should the API key be paid? I did not get that impression, because I could use it for free

Google wants money - yes. I forgot the exact numbers for the API, but it is x dollars for x words. True, the website offers more or less the same service and you can use it as much as you want, but it is also limited (5000 characters per page submit).

suadnovic wrote:This is somewhat confusing, I wonder what is the purpose of the API key?

I suppose the point of API use is to be able to do something fully automated and without any limitations and I guess people were doing it too much and/or Google saw another monetizing model.

os_dev
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:42 pm

Re: Subtitle Edit + API key

Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:33 am

Hi !

I'm glad you talk about automatic subtitle translations ! We have been working on the implementation of a new service, based on artificial intelligence.

There is no interface yet on opensubtitles.com, but if you wish to try it out, you can send me a link to any subtitle, and I will generate a translation for you to try.

The system works to and from the following languages:
- English
- French
- German
- Spanish
- Portuguese
- Italian
- Dutch
- Polish
- Russian

cheers

suadnovic
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:41 pm

Re: Subtitle Edit + API key

Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:50 am

From

- English
- French
- German
- Spanish
- Portuguese
- Italian
- Dutch
- Polish
- Russian

in which languages?

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oss
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Contact: Website

Re: Subtitle Edit + API key

Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:57 pm

you can translate from those languages
you can translate to those languages.

So you can not translate from or to for example Chinese, Czech or Hindi

suadnovic
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:41 pm

Re: Subtitle Edit + API key

Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:02 pm

I'm interesting in translation wrom those languages to serbian, but as I can see, this isn't possible. I hope, not in this moment.

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