NEW HD SYMBOL

[scooby007]

The following is a message from an esteem
colleauge.

"I noticed that many 350MB xvid episodes have the HD logo now. What exactly does it mean then? They are recorded from HDTV, but they are downsized to low-res. I would suggest using "HD" only for HD content, i.e. 720p or 1080i/p because if it was me looking for a subtitle for my 720p mkv file, I would think that "HD" is the right subtitle for me.
In the end, the most important thing is not the resolution but the framerate of the source. BDRIPs have often (not alsways...sigh) exactly 24fps, whereas US DVDs have 23,9... fps. That adds to a few seconds difference over the film, so the subtitles are not interchangeable. HD is not the same as HDTV. You might know that, but how about the users.....?"

Does everyone think we should leave the sign as it is since by name the said programmes are meant to be HDTV, regardless of what resolution they were ripped at? Or are we misleading by this practice? I have not given this much thought, but maybe the "HIGH DEFINITION MOVIE" icon in the uploads page could be changed to: "ONLY 720p-1080p -1080i" -BDRIP MOVIES??? or something simpler, I don't know.
[/b]

[rogard]

Here's an info about HD and framerates.

Same source - same framerate. Simple.

HDTV XVID rips and 720p HD Rips always share the same fps. If they are ripped from US or Canadian TV, they are always 23.976fps. Both, and that's why the subtitles often fit for XVID and 720p alike.
Therefore, framerate is never different if the source is the same. So from a subtitle framerate perspective it doesn't matter whether it's HD or not. Sure, if the rip was made by another group, the sync might be different nonetheless because of slightly different editing of the commercial breaks etc.

(Note that many if not all HDTV rips from PAL countries (like GB) will have 25fps.)

It gets way more complicated with BDRips: they are the only ones who can actually have 24fps instead of 23.976...which means that the subtitles for an NTSC DVD won't fit.
If you have a lo-res DIVX BDRip ripped from a 24fps Bluray disc, it will also have 24fps.
In any case, lo-res DIVX BDRip or Hi-res 720p/1080i all have the same fps as the source.

(*Most* Blurays from NTSC countries will have 23.976fps. BDRips from PAL countires will have either true 24fps or 25fps.)

I would suggest you have a look at the filenames (for scene releases at least) and if it says 720p or 1080i (or 1080p), it's "HD", otherwise it's not. IMO, what matters for a HD tag is the resolution of the video and not that of the source.

It would be different if you used a "HDTV" tag, because that clearly refers to the original source.

And if you don't have it yet, you need a new fps entry for true 24fps. I will try to write a little essay about the madness of 24fps vs. 23.976fps on Bluray discs in the next few days - it is a bit complicated. For now, it seems you don't have to worry about true 24fps for TV episodes.

In the end, for subtitles it's more important to know the source, not how big the resolution of the video is. So a "BDRip" or "24p" tag for all BDRips with true 24fps would *probably* be more helpful to find the right subtitles. (Just a thought, not even a suggestion, so don't do something hasty. )

[scooby007]

I have just noticed when uploading for series subtitles, even though I didn't select the HD icon, It's still tagging the subtitle as HD?

So can you not do something, so it just automatically tags, 720p-1080i-1080p-BDRip movies by it self?

So the feature could be turned off and tagging done automatically so the uploader has no control. Maybe...?

[oss]

yes, I am parsing release name and filenames with filter. can you send here releasename and filenames, so we can see what is going on ?

ofcourse I can turn off this feature, but it is ok?

[rogard]

OS, I am not sure if you misunderstood what I wrote or if you really want to give anything with a HD SOURCE the HD label.

I think, just as scooby obviously, that only video releases that still have High Resolution should bear that label.
XVID HDTV Rips are definitely not HD any more, although the source was HD.

Not the source is important, only the resolution of the resulting video file.
(Well, at least that's what I think...)

So if you agree to that, you should remove "HDTV" and "BDRip", "Bluray" etc. from the list of keywords and only leave "720p", "1080i" "1080p" etc in there.

[scooby007]

I thought keeping "BDRip" would have been probable, no? What about blu-ray rips, they keep the resolution, well at least high enough to be classed as "HD"?

Or did you mean, just to keep it simple for the processing programme and not to mention any TV series/Movie extension names such as (HDTV + XviD, FQM, LOL or NoTV) and just mention the resolution size such as: "720p", "1080i" "1080p"?

It's hard to say what's what. I think it may still cause confusion. If a sub is called "Lost: S05E06 HDTV XviD" and the sub is not labelled as "HD" even though it's in the file name, it won't confuse the user will it?

[rogard]

Adding the HD flag to an XVID HDTVRip is as silly as adding a US flag to every non-English subtitle - just because it's for an American series or film.

"HD" clearly refers to the resolution of the ripped video, and not to the resolution of the source. By today's definition HD is either 720p or higher, and these XVIDs are barely half that (ca. 352p), so no "HD" label.

HD resolution is like the codec or container format or AC3 sound for example. It doesn't matter whether the source had AC3, it matters whether the video has got it. So these attributes are all file related, not source related.

All the release tags like CAM, TS, TC, SCR, R5, DVDrip and BDRip, HDTV, PDTV, SDTV etc refer indeed to the source, but they say nothing about the quality or resolution of the resulting ripped video.

I bet nobody would be confused if lo-res 350MB videos didn't have a HD tag.

[scooby007]

ok, my function for parsing releasenames, filenames looks like this:

Code:

//check if string contains some of:
/*
720p
1080p
2160p
HDTV
BluRay
HDDVD
BD5
BD9
BDRIP
BRRIP
*/
return preg_match('/720p|1080p|2160p|HDTV|Blu.?Ray|HD.?DVD|BD5|BD9|BD.?RIP|BR.?RIP/i', $string) ? 1 : 0;


I think it is ok from beggining. Also I agree, with HD should be marked everything, what is 720p and more (source material)

if you have some ideas, how to make it better, let me know.

[scooby007]

In regards to the above. I'm not entirely sure how the code works, but having "HDTV" in there, will that
still not tag 350MB shows with the HD symbol?

[eduo]

This has caused confusion everywhere, because the scene embeds in the name the source of the video and there's a lot of assumptions.

Also, the rules for TV Series and movies are not identical.

If a TV series doesn't include either 720p or 1080 then it's not an HD video. If it does then it is. Regardless of the source. This is similar to FS vs. WS. Every video is assumed FS unless WS is specified.

Here's an example of the last two thousand eztv + vtv releases:
http://eduo.info/guides/allepisodes

As soon as you stray from Scene releases then it's all free-form. For example in Spain everything that isn't a DVDRip gets labeled a "Screener", whatever it actually is.

Strings like 720, 1080,BDRip, HDDVDRip are probably the only ones reliable for HD.

"HDTV" is never a reliable indicator.

As long as it's "scene" it's regulated:
BDRIPS:
http://rules.nukenet.info/t.html?id=2009_BDr.nfo

General Rules:
http://rules.nukenet.info/t.html?id=2009_XViD.nfo

As mentioned, the problem is the further you stray outside the scene releases. Everything is valid. There's lots of fakery and "interpretations".

All in all, I wonder: Why do we want to flag subtitles? Subtitles are not HD in themselves. Flagging for video managers I understand but for subtitles? It's as illogical as putting a flag for Dolby Surround sound or Aspect Ratio.

[scooby007]

I was discussing this with OS. Well initially the thought and discussion was just in relation to “Machine Translation” subtitles and how to spot them out in the mass of uploads.

OS came to the conclusion that it would be easier if he created a symbol to label the said subtitles. That‘s when the (“Subtitles are auto translated“) feature was added. At this point OS probably pulled out all stops and decided to add the other tagging labels.

Whether this is beneficial or makes any difference, I don’t know. But I guess the functions aim is to help users differentiate the difference between subtitles for the HD movies/TV series and the non HD movies/TV series, as sometimes the frame rate can be different.

I have noticed other sites incorporating the tagging system. If it would be useful here… remains to be seen.

[eduo]

I'm OK with the tagging, but I think this specific tag relates to videos and not subtitles. It could be a first step into cataloguing the videos opensubtitles knows about, but other than that I can't imagine how a subtitle that could relate to an HD content as much as to an iPod Low-res version could have a flag for HD in it.

[scooby007]

That’s what was being discussed. We thought that… example/ an episode for lost (S05E012 HDTV.FQM) Even though the source file is ripped from a HDTV source, after ripping it has a lower resolution, hence the subtitles for this episode shouldn’t be tagged as HD.

Then the sub file name has HDTV written in there, so then we thought this might cause confusion to the user who may think it should be tagged as a HDTV subtitle. (I have had requests in reports from uploaders to tag their uploads as HD).

So we thought of only tagging 720p and above, as HD subtitles as they keep their resolution.
But since OS has gone abroad, who knows whether he’ll have stable access to the net to make the necessary changes. In regards to iPod movie clips. Their resolution isn’t above 720p is it?

[eduo]

That’s what was being discussed. We thought that… example/ an episode for lost (S05E012 HDTV.FQM) Even though the source file is ripped from a HDTV source, after ripping it has a lower resolution, hence the subtitles for this episode shouldn’t be tagged as HD.

My point is that no subtitle should be tagged as HD since subtitles have no resolution.

Then the sub file name has HDTV written in there, so then we thought this might cause confusion to the user who may think it should be tagged as a HDTV subtitle. (I have had requests in reports from uploaders to tag their uploads as HD).

Not flagging them as HD gets rid of this non-problem. If a use thinks HDTV in names means the video (not the subtitle) is HD then his/her problems are well above what can be fixed with a tag, since essentially it means he doesn't understand how the naming is supposed to work (I'm not saying he should know, by the way).

So we thought of only tagging 720p and above, as HD subtitles as they keep their resolution.

Here is where I'm lost. Subtitles are not HD. They can't be HD. If I pick up a Blu-Ray and RIP an HD version, a SD version, a Low-Res version and an iPod version the same subtitles will work for all, not only the HD video.

But since OS has gone abroad, who knows whether he’ll have stable access to the net to make the necessary changes. In regards to iPod movie clips. Their resolution isn’t above 720p is it?

It's unimportant what the resolution of the iPod movie clips. My point is precisely that the subtitles have no resolution-dependence.

I'm sorry if I can't explain myself. I just missed the part where it made sense to attach resolution metadata (that's what an HD flag is) to subtitles, which don't have any resolution. Makes as much sense as putting in the subtitles the original language of the video or whether it has Dolby Surround.

[eduo]

Weird. I got a response which I read. I had been waiting to answer it until I had a moment but it's not there any more. I've saved the text in case it's an error, I can include it in a quoted text without problem.

I obviously am not criticizing anyone and I agree that a "Machine Translated" flag is a good thing (I myself would delete the sub and ban the user or at least send a warning). My comments were specifically on why putting "HD" flags to subtitles, something that I can't understand.

I was just looking for understanding, nothing more. I will show HD badges in SolEol, for example. But I plan to do so on videos, not subtitles. Subtitles themselves have no resolution. I understand framerates change depending on the source but that doesn't bear any relation with "HD" badges either.

I don't mean to sound stubborn. I wouldn't have replied any more if it hadn't looked like I was criticizing (which I wasn't) or if I hadn't seen the reply disappear.