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bossalex
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:22 am

Subtitle disabled - disappointed

Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:36 am

Hello Bossalex,

your uploaded subtitles http://www.opensubtitles.org/subtitles/ ... ominion-en
was disabled by "M_I_S" - http://www.opensubtitles.org/profile/iduser-8396040
Reason for disabling: \"Thank you for trying, as there is retail version available now, this one was deleted.\"

I am a VIP member and I enjoy and appreciate your work unfortunately today M_I_S decided to remove a subtitles uploaded by my, the reason given was that there is a retail version available now, my question is in this case what is the point on uploading a subtitle if someone decide to disable it? I mean I upload the subtitles in good faith. Thanks for your understanding.

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scooby007
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Location: Scandalous

Re: Subtitle disabled - disappointed

Sat Jul 09, 2022 5:35 pm

Hello,

Thank you for being a VIP member.
Being a VIP member doesn't mean site rules or processes don't need to be followed. In the English section retail usually takes precedence over a manual handwritten transcript/transcribed subtitles and has been the case for years.
Also, in addition, the issue with this subtitle may have also been the fact that it may have had links to another website, which isn't usually allowed, either.

Thank you for understanding.
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DatDudeCee
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:55 pm

Re: Subtitle disabled - disappointed

Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:33 pm

........ what is the point on uploading a subtitle if someone decide to disable it? I mean I upload the subtitles in good faith.......
This part needs to be capitalized, highlighted, and sent in an email daily to OpenSubs Admin. I'm sorry but the "Retail Subs" EXCUSE isnt gonna work here.
Movies/TV Shows are CONSTANTLY showing Different Versions (i.e. Uncut, Directors Cut, Extended Versions, Unrated, etc.). Not to mention a LOT of Foreign Content DON'T have the same Geo-Restrictions and Movie Censorship Politics that the U.S. and other Strict countries have on Content. So a show that may have been subtitled by a OpenSubs User/Subtitler may not be the same version as the Retail version. I've personally, had to come back to Opensubs on several occasions and Re-Download a Subtitle from another user cause I got the wrong version...or the Retail version didnt fit the Extended Version I was watching.
Please dont get this confused...I'm not here to argue about Censorship Laws or anything...just that Users subs should be kept regardless of whether the Retail subtitles hit the Market. If anything....create a Section JUST for Retail and Official Subs. OR...create a section for User Subs and seperate it from the "Official Subs". And while you're at it...create a "Subtitle Workshop" for subtitles that arent as good and need to be edited by other subtitlers/language specialists. This will help "lesser known" series/movies that should still receive quality subs. Thanks

bossalex
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:22 am

Re: Subtitle disabled - disappointed

Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:51 am

........ what is the point on uploading a subtitle if someone decide to disable it? I mean I upload the subtitles in good faith.......
This part needs to be capitalized, highlighted, and sent in an email daily to OpenSubs Admin. I'm sorry but the "Retail Subs" EXCUSE isnt gonna work here.
Movies/TV Shows are CONSTANTLY showing Different Versions (i.e. Uncut, Directors Cut, Extended Versions, Unrated, etc.). Not to mention a LOT of Foreign Content DON'T have the same Geo-Restrictions and Movie Censorship Politics that the U.S. and other Strict countries have on Content. So a show that may have been subtitled by a OpenSubs User/Subtitler may not be the same version as the Retail version. I've personally, had to come back to Opensubs on several occasions and Re-Download a Subtitle from another user cause I got the wrong version...or the Retail version didnt fit the Extended Version I was watching.
Please dont get this confused...I'm not here to argue about Censorship Laws or anything...just that Users subs should be kept regardless of whether the Retail subtitles hit the Market. If anything....create a Section JUST for Retail and Official Subs. OR...create a section for User Subs and seperate it from the "Official Subs". And while you're at it...create a "Subtitle Workshop" for subtitles that arent as good and need to be edited by other subtitlers/language specialists. This will help "lesser known" series/movies that should still receive quality subs. Thanks
I totally agree...

bossalex
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:22 am

Re: Subtitle disabled - disappointed

Sun Jul 10, 2022 11:38 am

Hello,

Thank you for being a VIP member.
Being a VIP member doesn't mean site rules or processes don't need to be followed. In the English section retail usually takes precedence over a manual handwritten transcript/transcribed subtitles and has been the case for years.
Also, in addition, the issue with this subtitle may have also been the fact that it may have had links to another website, which isn't usually allowed, either.

Thank you for understanding.
I did not mention the VIP membership in a way to take advantage, but I don't see the point of us uploading subtitles if they get disabled after 3days

PS. my subtitles was a saa version for the hard encoded version of the movie I was made to cover the hardcoded subtitles

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scooby007
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Re: Subtitle disabled - disappointed

Sun Jul 10, 2022 12:44 pm

I totally agree...

So do I. :D

I personally don't delete transcripts if they are near perfect and the uploader had spent hours upon hours of his/her own time creating that subtitle.

Wasn't this SubTrader's subtitle originally with removed credits and your own credits were put into them linking a streaming or a movie/series downloading website?

Even if it's not belonging to that user originally, links to streaming or downloading websites within a subtitle isn't normally allowed as I stated in my original post.
Grammatically it has capital letters where it shouldn't and lowercase letters where it should be capitol letters and vice-versa.
People names and names of other things aren't capitalised or grammatically correct nor is any narration by the narrator in italics and not verbatim.

This subtitle was not for different cuts or versions of the movie, but for the same version of the movie that the retail version fits.
So having 2 subtitles for the same sync and cut of the movie when one of those subs is inferior in quality makes no sense.
Users wouldn't know the difference and should be guided towards the better subtitle.

This is my opinion on the matter, if you don't agree with it, you (and other users in similar positions) could always PM and have the discussion with the admin who deleted that subtitle presenting an argument why your subtitle should stay or take precedence over the retail version. And if said admin agrees, it is up to them to decide. Creating forum posts rather than discussing directly with the admin who deleted it invites opinions and different points of view. In my point of view that admin did nothing wrong as they are initially taught website/torrent/streaming links within subtitles aren't allowed. Being replaced with a "retail version" reason was the icing on the cake, so to speak.
I did not mention the VIP membership in a way to take advantage,

I'm sorry if I misunderstood, at the time I didn't see any relevance in mentioning that revelation in your post when it had nothing to do with the price of chips.

Good day
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bossalex
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2022 11:22 am

Re: Subtitle disabled - disappointed

Sun Jul 10, 2022 9:49 pm

As I understand your point except for the fact that the subtitle was an extraction from the retail version converted to SSA, I will stop uploading subtitles to opensubtitles site and I will also stop supporting opensubtitles.

Have a great day and best wishes for the future.End of post

DatDudeCee
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:55 pm

Re: Subtitle disabled - disappointed

Mon Jul 11, 2022 7:35 pm

...So having 2 subtitles for the same sync and cut of the movie when one of those subs is inferior in quality makes no sense.
Users wouldn't know the difference and should be guided towards the better subtitle...

Ok not gonna lie...I agree with this. But it kinda goes against ALL the Main sites trends of having HUNDREDS of Subtitlers of the same language downloading the SAME SUBTITLE. Literally EVERY SINGLE WEEK the newest Blockbuster offerings have at least 15 to 20 different copies of the SAME LANGUAGE subtitle and noone says or does anything about it. If what you said was OpenSubs practice. We should only see 4 or 5 versions of each language...TOPS! With that being said I hope IT DOES become an Opensubs practice so some of those talented Subtitlers who chase Blockbusters can start download other Good, "not-so-popular", Foreign Content.

.... website/torrent/streaming links within subtitles aren't allowed. Being replaced with a "retail version" reason was the icing on the cake, so to speak....


Wait...I didnt know we werent allowed to mention other websites in our subtitle Opensubs description. I recently created subtitles for the SECOND Season of To the Lake(Epidemiya) and I mentioned the source I pulled the subs from which was DXP.ru website on the front description page of Opensubs. I figured since the uploader there spent hours subtitling and Hardcoding those subtitles..I should at LEAST shout out the source I had ripped and transed it from. Also, if there were any subtitlers here, who understood Russian, looking over my material...they would at least know WHERE to find the Original content if they wanted to Edit or create there OWN subtitles. Honestly it wasnt Promo or anything as I'm not on DXP's payroll...but I dont wanna violate Opensubs and get those subs deleted...so should I still EDIT OUT the website shoutout that I put in the description of those torrents??????

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Funchalense
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Re: Subtitle disabled - disappointed

Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:36 pm


Wait...I didnt know we werent allowed to mention other websites in our subtitle Opensubs description. I recently created subtitles for the SECOND Season of To the Lake(Epidemiya) and I mentioned the source I pulled the subs from which was DXP.ru website on the front description page of Opensubs. I figured since the uploader there spent hours subtitling and Hardcoding those subtitles..I should at LEAST shout out the source I had ripped and transed it from. Also, if there were any subtitlers here, who understood Russian, looking over my material...they would at least know WHERE to find the Original content if they wanted to Edit or create there OWN subtitles. Honestly it wasnt Promo or anything as I'm not on DXP's payroll...but I dont wanna violate Opensubs and get those subs deleted...so should I still EDIT OUT the website shoutout that I put in the description of those torrents??????

Mentioning other web sites as credits is only allowed if that web site is a subtitle creating community of translators/subtitlers and the source of that subtitle, but this is not mandatory like with 'normal' credits. However, in some cases the language specific admin can decide to make it mandatory for specific web sites. Mentioning web sites which are only a gathering resource is not allowed.


  • Everything about credits :
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15787

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SmallBrother
Site Admin
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Re: Subtitle disabled - disappointed

Tue Jul 12, 2022 4:39 pm

Funchalense just answered your second question.

Your first question:
...So having 2 subtitles for the same sync and cut of the movie when one of those subs is inferior in quality makes no sense.
Users wouldn't know the difference and should be guided towards the better subtitle...

Ok not gonna lie...I agree with this. But it kinda goes against ALL the Main sites trends of having HUNDREDS of Subtitlers of the same language downloading the SAME SUBTITLE. Literally EVERY SINGLE WEEK the newest Blockbuster offerings have at least 15 to 20 different copies of the SAME LANGUAGE subtitle and noone says or does anything about it. If what you said was OpenSubs practice. We should only see 4 or 5 versions of each language...TOPS! With that being said I hope IT DOES become an Opensubs practice so some of those talented Subtitlers who chase Blockbusters can start download other Good, "not-so-popular", Foreign Content.
It's very simple. There are zillion users, zillion uploads and only a handful of admins. Those admins are unpaid volunteers with limited time and a life outside of OpenSubtitles. They can only do a few things of the very large to-do list. I think that's what happened in this case. This is not a matter of inconsistency or double standards, just a matter of reality.

I think maybe you underestimate the tasks of admins. The number of things to do, but also all the considerations to make, not to mention replying to forum topics ;-) Carefully cleaning up just ONE title with 20 versions would take 1-2 hours. Doing it too quickly, would maybe lead to 20 forum topics.
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DatDudeCee
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:55 pm

Re: Subtitle disabled - disappointed

Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:06 pm

It's very simple. There are zillion users, zillion uploads and only a handful of admins. Those admins are unpaid volunteers with limited time and a life outside of OpenSubtitles. They can only do a few things of the very large to-do list. I think that's what happened in this case. This is not a matter of inconsistency or double standards, just a matter of reality.

I think maybe you underestimate the tasks of admins. The number of things to do, but also all the considerations to make, not to mention replying to forum topics ;-) Carefully cleaning up just ONE title with 20 versions would take 1-2 hours. Doing it too quickly, would maybe lead to 20 forum topics.


Sorry...the "Over-Worked and Under-Paid" excuse WONT WORK here either. The "Subtitles Workshop" Suggestion I gave AND limiting the amount of "versions uploaded" will fix that Over-Worked problem. When you have more people working on the SAME subtitles...MORE SUBTITLES GET DONE. That Simple. Dont get me wrong...it will present other challenges like...figuring out who's version is the best, most accurate, Complaints, etc. But it'll definitely be easier on the Selected Proofreaders/Editors (Admin, Language Experts, and even Trusted ONE-Language Subtitle Enthusiasts, etc.) of the site to go through and Correct Subtitle Mistakes. and produce the best results. Hell, Admin could even make a little contest out of it. It'll be less work and more content getting subtitled.
Of course this would be OUTSIDE the Retail subtitles that the site posts when they are available. But one of the things that makes OpenSubs dope, (besides the HUGE catalog, and different Posted sections for Users to interact) is that we can get subs for content that ISN'T "Main Stream" Hollywood, Bollywood, K-Drama, etc. and cant be found anywhere else. It literally connects the movie-watcher to the ENTIRE World of Movies.

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pooond
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:08 pm

Re: Subtitle disabled - disappointed

Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:04 pm

Sorry...the "Over-Worked and Under-Paid" excuse WONT WORK here either. The "Subtitles Workshop" Suggestion I gave AND limiting the amount of "versions uploaded" will fix that Over-Worked problem.

Sorry to say, but that seems like 2D thinking, not 4D thinking that is required. Your above scenario would only work if OpenSubs started from scratch. With 0 subs.
According to what's been discussed here, they are already coping with certain languages for newly uploaded subtitles and blockbusters, SmallBrother was referring to the "zillion" subtitles that have been uploaded prior and in the past 2 decades. Evidently, that's what you first referenced in your initial question.
Let's just assume they implement your idea, that still leaves the "zillion" subtitles uploaded in the past that will not be touched, fixed or deleted as that still needs, and I quote:
Carefully cleaning up just ONE title with 20 versions would take 1-2 hours. Doing it too quickly, would maybe lead to 20 forum topics.


A similar system to what you require already exists on Addic7ed. If you think that system will work for movies, you can always take like minded individuals as yourself and take advantage of that sites features and if it works in the long run, bring that data and group here and ask OS to implement it on the new opensubtitles.com website showing that it worked elsewhere.
From what I've heard from another admin I was talking to in the past, they are not going to implement new major ideas on the .org version of the site as this version of the site is going to be phased out.

You can submit new ideas to .com version here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16844
I've personally, had to come back to Opensubs on several occasions and Re-Download a Subtitle from another user cause I got the wrong version...or the Retail version didnt fit the Extended Version I was watching.

Instead of using manual search, have you ever tried dragging and dropping your video to the search bar icon on the left ("Drag And Drop video file here")?
Provided that movie has corresponding hashes submitted against it, the site will show and make suggestions to the right subtitle for your movie rip. Try it.
Plenty of hidden features on this site. :wink:

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SmallBrother
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Re: Subtitle disabled - disappointed

Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:45 am

Sorry...the "Over-Worked and Under-Paid" excuse WONT WORK here either.
I mentioned "There are zillion users, zillion uploads and only a handful of admins. Those admins are unpaid volunteers with limited time (...) This is (...) just a matter of reality."
My intention was not to have an "excuse" and "Over-Worked and Under-Paid" is slightly twisting things.
The "Subtitles Workshop" Suggestion I gave AND limiting the amount of "versions uploaded" will fix that Over-Worked problem.
I have the feeling you slowly slowly want to go back to what has already been discussed before, see your post and following:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1969&start=60#p47231
I don't see a point in repeating the same discussion.

Speaking of which, after
https://www.opensubtitles.org/en/profile/iduser-8849706 (DatDudeCee)
you created another user:
https://www.opensubtitles.org/nl/profile/iduser-9341413 (RayTheVet83)

You have been using this to upload (again) poor machine translations for recent movies - going 180 degrees against what has been previously said, and having the same discussion again, this time with admin SimplyTheBOSS. I think this is an utter waste of time, if not totally taking the piss.

So I will repeat here what I have written there:
It's okay if you want to waste your own time, but it is NOT okay to waste ours. Hereby an official warning. If you continue to upload machine translations, you will be blocked.

Anyway and meanwhile, I consider this discussion here closed, too.
Thank you for understanding.
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DatDudeCee
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Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:55 pm

Re: Subtitle disabled - disappointed

Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:22 pm

SmallBrother...you are totally RIGHT about me creating a new account. NOT to post BAD subtitles tho...my subtitles receive hundreds of downloads and are generally fulfilling OPENSUBTITLES REQUESTS..that aren't being fulfilled (even the ones your trying to humiliate me on, received HUNDREDS of downloads and multiple Thanks). OR..Im subtitling Movies and TV Series that none else has subtitled and is in demand like Season 2 of To the Lake so I can bring TRAFFIC TO THE SITE. We've already beat the whole Machine Translation argument to deat- which is why I officially APOLOGIZED on my profile page AND asked if there's a path I can take to get OFF ADMIN WARNING and back in "Good Graces". No BS... I honestly forgot (since that Machine Translation argument) that I take subtitles that's in the REQUEST Section...MT subtitle them...an post them Elsewhere since Opensubs doesn't want them. I'm asking how to get back in Good Graces bc hopefully one day I can get it right and become an Opensubs Admin and have enough influence to CREATE and Run the Subtitles Workshop Idea myself. I really wish you didn't hit me with the "Mother Theresa" comment as it kinda made me feel like your starting to hold a little grudge against me. Please accept this as my apology for debating you on this topic and please understand I ACTUALLY DID forget to not post my subtitles on here. So can you PLEASE tell me the way to get OFF Admin Warning as I don't want that following me when I make moves to become Admin. And if possible...please let me know how I can get off your Sh!t list too. And nothing corny like "just don't make Machine Translations and we're good". There ain't a Machine Translation Automated enough to turn SmallBrother into Brother Undercover investigating my profile habits, calling out my subtitles "out-of-the-blue"...and making Mother Theresa remarks to shut down my path back to Good Graces. A Kind response would be appreciated.

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SmallBrother
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Re: Subtitle disabled - disappointed

Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:49 pm

A Kind response would be appreciated.
Fair enough.
Topic locked.
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