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lerman
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:46 am

Reporting an abusive manager - explosiveskull

Fri Apr 29, 2022 10:30 am

Hi,

I would like to share with you a very bad experience I had with an administrator on the site: explosiveskull

I've downloaded subtitles and the subtitles looked damaged to me, there was a very low amount of lines in the subtitles,
I've tried to download it again a couple of times and got the same result, at this point I've looked for leaving a comment to update the site maintainers that the subtitles are broken and didn't found anywhere left a comment, then I saw the ranking in the page and I set a low rank for the subtitles, one day after that I got an immediate warning for ranking the subtitles, with no asking or checking why I ranked it low, now if anyone that ranking low subtitles will have a chance for getting warning he probably won't rank it again, so why to put it there from first place.

Anyway I've explained to explosiveskull that the subtitles are broken and he told me that these subtitles are only for foreign subtitles, now I must say I totally agree, it was my mistake, I'm using your site for a long time (see me creation date) and I've never seen this kind of subtitles, the icon is very small and it's hard to detect that this is special subtitles, then the admin explosiveskull start to be very aggressive and his behavior was not professional at all, instead of taking my note of this is not clear enough and maybe help me to report for UI fix suggestion (what professional admin would do) he warned me and now threatening me with a ban, I would like to get your attention for this admin because he might make you lose a lot of visitors.

I didn't have any bad intentions actually I wanted to help with my rank, but he just blamed me and turned me into someone trying to do damage.

I'm not asking to change my rank back or something like that, I just want to report his behavior, you have an awesome website and I was disappointed to see such a bad admin on such an amazing site.

While writing this post I found out that there are lots of complaints about him, so you can tell me I'm wrong regarding my case but when so many site visitors say the same thing there is probably an issue here.

I understand that he probably contributes to the site, but you need to ask yourself if it's worth the shallow conversations, potential abandonment of site visitors and other contributors, and harm to the site content.

My profile: https://www.opensubtitles.org/en/profile/iduser-4887452,
Thanks for reading.

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scooby007
Site Admin
Posts: 837
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:49 pm
Location: Scandalous

Re: Reporting an abusive manager - explosiveskull

Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:53 pm

Hello,

Thank you for being part of our community.
Admin was and has been monitored and has shown signs of a lot of improvement in the last 6 months, so his past record from the pictures you provided can't and will not be taken into consideration.

I have seen explosiveskull have "polite conversations" regarding "foreign parts only" subs being marked down as bad quite a lot recently with users in the last 6 months, but enough should be enough.
Admins shouldn't have to deal with bad ratings for "foreign parts only" at all. I can understand some subs may not have a "foreign parts only" symbol, but that's what this topic is for: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2595
Admins work for free and have a personal life, too. And we're not trying to compete with the world renowned best customer service by Fly Emirates. They make billions, we don't even get paid in peanuts. :D

Your English is good enough, so let's break down your conversation.
You were told you marked down subs as bad for no reason, an you responded by:

"For no reason".. ? your subtitles broken! there is only 24 subtitles in your upload!"
Firstly, the "For no reason...?" sound like a beginning of a Karen tantrum, then the sentence is followed by 2 exclamation marks to indicate you are shouting and angry , right?

It seems you’re upset about “foreign parts only” subtitles and this guy here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17278#p44452
He’s upset about subtitles not being for “foreign parts only”.
One can’t win in this business. In any business, matter of fact.

He responded by saying:
"What are you even talking about? Do you have eyes? Do you read the description? How many more signs and words do you need to understand when the subtitles are only for the foreign parts?"

Considering how you responded initially, and that we're not competing with Fly Emirates, and that you are probably not the first person that week he is having this same conversation with, I think the above was a reasonable response and question.

Then you admitted the mistake and it should have been left there, but you go on to say how the UI is to blame and call him a "3 years old infant, grow up."

Did he insult you back when you said that? No.
He's response was:
"If you have a problem with something, it's your responsibility to ask around. It's not our fault you don't pay attention to anything and wanna just click on a download button as soon as possible. Consider this a verbal warning, next time you do this you'll get banned."

Just a "verbal warning" after you insulted him and you should have just left things there, again, and walked away with a win, but pride and a bruised ego is sometimes too hard to nurture, it seems.
Respect is a two way street.
When it comes to pride, I generally agree with Mr Marsellus Wallace:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruhFmBrl4GM


I understand the wireframe globe icon may not be the best to indicate a subtitle is "foreign parts only" or it may not be big enough, but by your own words there was a user comment also stating its for "foreign parts only". So I feel the only other thing we could have done to satisfy and meet your requirements here are a pop-up warning box to indicate "Do not download subtitle unless you agree that you understand this is a 'foreign parts only' subtitle." Which is unreasonable, but you're welcome to indicate your preference and ideas to the new .com site here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16844

All ideas are welcome, and maybe your input on how else it can be clearer on the new site when we migrate over there completely can help us avoid these instances.

Thank you for your understanding.
Last edited by SmallBrother on Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed that "Is everybody deaf" link
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lerman
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:46 am

Re: Reporting an abusive manager - explosiveskull

Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:40 pm

Hi scooby007,

You know I pay attention that you guys always rejecting users criticism, like you're trying to advocate for your admins, let me explain you something, we are not in court, so stop look for the "right side" and the "wrong side", I just gave you my experience as a user, its not a complaining from the kind of "Hey I paid for your service give me good service!", No, definitely not!, its more like "I had bad experience here is my perspective", now you can take it or leave it, if you'll always reject what your users say so save your time and do not respond it because it doesn't no matter anyway.

If you want to be right let me make it easy for you: I'm wrong and explosiveskull is right, that's what you tried to achieve with you're response? so be it, I'm ok with that, just was trying to help you being better, but if you don't want your users opinion, that's fine as well.

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scooby007
Site Admin
Posts: 837
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:49 pm
Location: Scandalous

Re: Reporting an abusive manager - explosiveskull

Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:53 pm

Hello lerman,

Thank you for your explanation. I’m very much obliged for your insight.
You have no idea what goes on in private and if an admin is lectured and given warnings in private or not, so no one, least of all me, had advocated anything else here.
There is a hidden forum only for admins.
I simply pointed out that respect is a two way street and your approach, actions and responses were in question as well. I gave you a different perspective to what I saw written in the English language, as opposed to just your version of events. You didn’t like this part, I gather.
If one doesn’t want anyone else’s opinion on the matter, they shouldn’t post in a public forum. Public forums serve as an invite to public opinions.

Just to be clear, I ain’t on anyones side. Just calling a spade a spade.
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SmallBrother
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:59 pm
Location: Somewhere on this globe

Re: Reporting an abusive manager - explosiveskull

Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:13 pm

(Oops, Scooby007 wrote something while I wrote this - here is it anyway...)


Please allow me to be the advocate of two devils, maybe three (or four, by now).

I am admin for a while and I get annoyed sometimes by users who are very fast with conclusions and actions, without realizing the harm it could do. I get annoyed by users who do a lot of harm with just a few fast mouse clicks, but who are not willing to write more than three words or even completely nothing, not even when explicitely asked. And believe me, sometimes it's hard not to fly up against the wall when the exact same thing happens for the zillionth time. So yes, I can imagine a little bit the reaction of an admin who thinks "ah, one of those again" and acts accordingly. At the same time, that reaction is exactly the same: too fast with conclusions and actions, not realizing the harm, and unwilling to spend a few more words.

Explosiveskull could have said: "Why did you give this-or-that-subtitle the lowest rating? I think there's nothing wrong with it." Or "If you gave a subtitle a low rating, please explain at least a little bit why." That would have been a more calm tone. Lerman01 could have said: "I am sorry, but I think with only 24 lines the subtitle is incomplete and it justifies my low rating." And/or "I didn't see any way of inserting any text, that's why I didn't nor couldn't explain." That would have been a bit de-escalating. Basically, I see two people who are just human. They want to be understood, but are not able to understand the other. Understanding stands and falls with communication.

I know explosiveskull has been under fire for his way of talking in the past. I am not monitoring explosiveskull, but I immediately believe English admin Scooby007 that things are better now. I find it hard to believe that Lerman couldn't figure out how to leave a text comment, but hey, I am human too. If I don't understand, it doesn't mean it's impossible.

I don't think Scooby007 is "rejecting users criticism" just for the sake of it. Trust me, in sight and out of sight, I know for a fact it hasn't been like that at all. The first post of Lerman was a pretty extensive description of his experience and perspective of it. Fair enough. Maybe what is described as "rejecting users criticism" is just a different perspective which possibly (and probably) hasn't been seen yet. That is not a matter of "right and wrong", maybe it's just a matter of "fair and understanding". That being said, would it be possible that both of you just say "I messed up" instead of "YOU messed up"? That would be slightly more difficult, but more productive.
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explosiveskull
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Re: Reporting an abusive manager - explosiveskull

Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:31 pm

@lerman: This is gonna be my only response in this topic. I'm not gonna read your essay 'cause I know what your argument's gonna be and I don't really care. This is not a customer service platform and we don't owe anybody anything since we're active on the site for free. When you sign up on the website you accept the responsibility of abiding by the site's rules and unwritten norms. Many users have made a habit of agitating against the smallest warnings from admins here and looks like you're no exception. Well, that's not gonna be the case any longer, at least not while you're dealing with me. If I come to the realization that you know the rules or you are warned by admins before, but you keep crying about it with insults and tantrums and breaking those rules intentionally, I will ban you.

You can get unbanned if you give your word that you'll be more careful in the future. Otherwise I bid you goodbye. You can keep using the website, but you'll no longer be able to comment or submit ratings.

lerman
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:46 am

Re: Reporting an abusive manager - explosiveskull

Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:24 pm

Hi SmallBrother,

Thanks for response first of all (even though it's the zillionth time),

You say that you get into the same situation over and over again, and I think the reason it's happening it's because you keep pushing back users comments, instead of that you should embrace them, if you'll keep play that ping pong it will never end, you say that:
- "I get annoyed by users who do a lot of harm with just a few fast mouse clicks" -> so why few clicks do such an harm? something here need to be change.
- "who are not willing to write more than three words or even completely" -> If it's important to have words when ranking, let's make it mendatory, or at least give some generic radio buttons. (Actually in my specific case I didn't saw where to add comment or didn't pay attenetion to the "only foriegn" mark).
My point here is if you see that there is some cases that happend over and over you shouldn't push them back, because it will frustrating you when they come again over and over, and this ping pong will never end.
Having say that, it is clear that every user behaves rudely and disrespectfully and his actions do not contribute to the system should not be response and even get ban if it bothers the admins.

Regarding you second section, I totally agree that this is the ideal conversation, I just can say that from my side the first comment I got from explosiveskull made me feel attacked and that's triggerd my next comment, anyway again, I'm not saying I'm right and he wrong, maybe you should take some actions, change something in the website in order to prevent from users to give low ranks for no reason, this will prevent me from give low rank for nothing and from explosiveskull get frustrated, but definitly you should take the user comment in account and not explain the user why he wrong and you right.

Regarding your third section, I'm glad you manage to get things better then the past, I promise you that I didn't saw where to leave a comment, now I may have really missed it and not given it enough search time, but again, you can always show popup before you let the user give a low score and ask "Are you sure you do not want to explain your rank?", I can say for my self that if I would saw message like that I was leaving a comment for sure, but I think that 'foriegn only' should be bolded and clear in order to prevent this kind of rank from first place.

BTW I'm team lead in big technology company and I'm totally understand your side, lot of the same annoyning complaints, but there is ways how to handle this things and make sure they won't happen again, you doing a great job and I'm totally appreciate your work (And I'm sure I'm saying this on behalf of other zillion people) and you don't need to deal with such things, hope I was able to give you a little tip that might help.

explosiveskull, I messed up, don't be mad, let's make our community better :)

lerman
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:46 am

Re: Reporting an abusive manager - explosiveskull

Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:32 pm

I wrote my post while explosiveskull posted his message already, how unfortunate, such an aggressive and negative threatening message, anyway wish you all good luck :)

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explosiveskull
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:33 pm

Re: Reporting an abusive manager - explosiveskull

Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:55 pm

explosiveskull, I messed up, don't be mad, let's make our community better :)
Your account is unbanned now, good luck.

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