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Roozel
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Adverts in subtitles?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:32 pm

I was watching the film Lucky, using Plex.

There was some Spanish dialogue I wanted to understand so I selected [Lucky.2017.BDRip.x264-GETiT] (SRT OpenSubtitles).

I left them on for a minute as I was absorbed. And then came a scene where Harry Dean Stanton gave a speech about existentialism followed by a period of silence for reflection and.....OpenSubtitles recommends using Nord VPN from 3.49 USD/month ---> osdb.link/vpn

The thing is I went on the site and downloaded all the Lucky subtitles, but when I ctrl + f'd I couldn't find the advert in them.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

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SmallBrother
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Re: Adverts in subtitles?

Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:31 pm

Maybe I can ;-)

If you use the OpenSubtitles website manually, you will have advertisements on the web site, NOT inside the subtitles.

If you use some API-software to download subtitles (Plex, Kodi, BSPlayer or whatever), you are not using the web site, so you do NOT have these web advertisements. To compensate this, ads are being added on-the-fly to the subtitles itself.

Fair is fair :)
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oss
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Re: Adverts in subtitles?

Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:07 pm

yeah and probably we should insert ads into web-downloaded subtitles, because ads on website make literally nothing :( very hard to monetise this type of content. Anyway, we are happy to provide nice service to you, users.

Roozel
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Re: Adverts in subtitles?

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:09 pm

I understand money is required for upkeep. However, I feel that it kind of goes against the concept "Open" in the technological space.

I did end up seeing the funny side of how inappropriate it was for that scene though.

I think placing those ads at the beginning and end is somewhat OK but not in the middle or at random points in the film. Actually I would even say at the end is inappropriate for serious films as the credits sequence is a time of reflecting over what you just experienced.

I would also question the efficacy of adverts within subtitles. Have you got tracking data for their success? The URLs aren't links so how many people are sitting down to watch a film and suddenly whipping out their phone/laptop/browser and typing it in manually? Let alone mid-way through. Especially a more serious film. And even more especially since it's NordVPN; a service that sponsors 99% of internet content and seems to be approaching some sort of consumer awareness fatigue.

Anyway, it's the owners' decision if they want to do it. I just won't be able to use the API function in the future.

If they started being added to the site downloads as well I would either manually strip them out, or use another service.

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SmallBrother
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Re: Adverts in subtitles?

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:46 pm

I understand money is required for upkeep. However, I feel that it kind of goes against the concept "Open" in the technological space.
How? I think the "open" refers to the fact that anybody can use the system, especially in API sense. Not to mention for free.
And even more especially since it's NordVPN; a service that sponsors 99% of internet content and seems to be approaching some sort of consumer awareness fatigue.
NordVPN is not the best VPN provider, but apparently they offer a good revenue for ads. It's up to them (not OpenSubtitles) if it's worth it or not.
Anyway, it's the owners' decision if they want to do it. I just won't be able to use the API function in the future.
If they started being added to the site downloads as well I would either manually strip them out, or use another service.
Personally, I deeply and intensely hate advertisements. I rather PAY for something and not be bothered further. However, for that I am quite alone in this world. For pretty much all the rest of the globe, the only thing that counts is free free free. So here you have it, something which is free - and full of ads.

If you don't want the ads, pay a fair price and become a VIP for 10 bucks per year.
Nowadays a VPN is a must for everyone. A VPN allows you safe surfing and protects you against spying governments and companies.
I advise AirVPN - from € 2,75 per month. Click the below banner for more info.


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Roozel
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Re: Adverts in subtitles?

Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:47 pm

I just want to note that please don't take my replies as outrage, or aggressive. I know it's common online so I don't want anyone to think I'm up in arms. I'm just disagreeing. Not that I feel you are. I just would like to say.
I understand money is required for upkeep. However, I feel that it kind of goes against the concept "Open" in the technological space.
How? I think the "open" refers to the fact that anybody can use the system, especially in API sense. Not to mention for free.
We can look at original definitions, but I know that concepts change over time. To me, and as has been commonly displayed, the open concept is one that is doing something in an attempt to preserve the core essence of something without the drive for profit.

In this context my assumption is: "People love films and want to allow others to enjoy them" So would a film lover love being advertised to in the middle an incredibly emotional moment?

For some films they're creating a world, an experience, to be lost in. When you insert an advert in the middle of it you bring people out of that illusion. The creators of the film never intended for an advert to be there, and so an advert shouldn't be there. It definitely diminishes the film when seen. Even if it's for a moment. That's how minds work. Should I be thinking about existence, in this case, or NordVPN? I can't focus on both. Nor can I quickly memorise the URL for later.
And even more especially since it's NordVPN; a service that sponsors 99% of internet content and seems to be approaching some sort of consumer awareness fatigue.
NordVPN is not the best VPN provider, but apparently they offer a good revenue for ads. It's up to them (not OpenSubtitles) if it's worth it or not.
Yeah of course. But that's why I was asking if anyone had figures. Because to me it doesn't seem very likely that people just sitting down to watch a film, or in the middle of one will pause it to note down the URL provided. So I would like to know exactly how many people are actually visiting it from the link in the subtitles. And if the link in the file is the same as links provided elsewhere it's going to mess up the data. So it seems like they may be reducing the quality of their service while not actually making a marked impact back in revenue.
Anyway, it's the owners' decision if they want to do it. I just won't be able to use the API function in the future.
If they started being added to the site downloads as well I would either manually strip them out, or use another service.
Personally, I deeply and intensely hate advertisements. I rather PAY for something and not be bothered further. However, for that I am quite alone in this world. For pretty much all the rest of the globe, the only thing that counts is free free free. So here you have it, something which is free - and full of ads.

If you don't want the ads, pay a fair price and become a VIP for 10 bucks per year.
That's fair, but I also still think it's fair to criticise the implementation of revenue streams in this manner for the reasons previously mentioned. Also I'm currently dirt poor haha.

I was unaware of other options until this moment. So they could also possibly change the message at the beginning of the film to "If you like these subs consider donating for as little as X (sorry haven't done the maths. Not a lot) a month."

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SmallBrother
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Re: Adverts in subtitles?

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:53 pm

I just want to note that please don't take my replies as outrage, or aggressive. I know it's common online so I don't want anyone to think I'm up in arms. I'm just disagreeing. Not that I feel you are. I just would like to say.
Don't worry. To me, your posts don't sound like aggression, to some extend not even disagreement :)

But let me first clarify something as well. I happen to be an OpenSubtitles admin, but what I am writing here is my personal opinion and not a reflection of beliefs or policies or so of OpenSubtitles.
For some films they're creating a world, an experience, to be lost in. When you insert an advert in the middle of it you bring people out of that illusion. The creators of the film never intended for an advert to be there, and so an advert shouldn't be there. It definitely diminishes the film when seen. Even if it's for a moment. That's how minds work. Should I be thinking about existence, in this case, or NordVPN? I can't focus on both. Nor can I quickly memorize the URL for later.
I totally agree. Ads do frustrate the experience of being in the movie and is a violation of the piece of art. But still, that doesn't void my point.
In my ideal world, money would not exist and everybody would work for free. Think about it, never again a financial crisis and no financial institution figuratively imprisoning you. Etc.
In a slightly less ideal world, people would just pay a fair amount for every service or good they use. Advertising wouldn't exist and we would only use what we need. If everybody would pay for using OpenSubtitles, the yearly rate could be a fraction of what it currently costs to be VIP-member (no ads).
However, this world is pretty ****ing far from being ideal. Things cost money and the amount of money people have is limited and usually quite a headache to increase. So, people want things for as cheap as possible or preferably totally free. But they ARE not free. "Free" only means the money needed is coming from somewhere else than from your own pocket. In this case from the advertisers.
Yeah of course. But that's why I was asking if anyone had figures.
I am afraid you are asking in the wrong place. OpenSubtitles is adding the advertisements, but not monitoring the actual affect of it. You should ask NordVPN if they think it's worth the money they are paying. But apparently they think so, since they are doing it ;-)
Because to me it doesn't seem very likely that people just sitting down to watch a film, or in the middle of one will pause it to note down the URL provided. So I would like to know exactly how many people are actually visiting it from the link in the subtitles. And if the link in the file is the same as links provided elsewhere it's going to mess up the data. So it seems like they may be reducing the quality of their service while not actually making a marked impact back in revenue.
This is actually a psychological question about how marketing works. I agree, I cannot imagine someone stopping to watch a movie and go check out that URL. But a main part of marketing is getting yourself being known. Not direct results, but long term results. Watching that movie with their ads will not get you to get a subscription at NordVPN that same evening. But if you are kind of brainwashed with the name "NordVPN", the moment you decide you want a VPN, and thinking "hmm, yeah, but which one..." - then you have the answer. Subconsciously you will even think they are a good VPN provider, because you heard so much about them ;-)
That's fair, but I also still think it's fair to criticise the implementation of revenue streams in this manner for the reasons previously mentioned.
True. Feel free to criticize as much as you want :)
Also I'm currently dirt poor haha.
You can also upload a bunch of subtitles. At 100+ uploads you hardly get any advertising and at 1000+ (I think) it's completely zero. That way even poor people could have an ad-free OpenSubtitles.
So they could also possibly change the message at the beginning of the film to "If you like these subs consider donating for as little as X (sorry haven't done the maths. Not a lot) a month."
I have my doubts about if that would actually work well enough. But it may be a reasonable idea the big boss of OpenSubtitles could think about, if he hasn't already done so.

Last but not least, please note that my task as OpenSubtitles admin is volantarily and 100% unpaid. Yeah, how crazy can one be, eh :) So I have no personal interest in the presence of ads and I definitely do not defend awkward ads. All I am doing is giving my opinion about the mechanism of advertising.
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os_dev
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Re: Adverts in subtitles?

Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:10 pm

Note there's no ads inserted on subtitles opensubtitles.com for now, it might come sometime but definitely in the first or last frames to not interfere with the movie, as a movie fan myself I will never let that happen.

Note that it's also possible that the original author inserted ads himself, there is an experimental system that allows removing them automatically in the advanced download on opensubtitles.com

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oss
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Re: Adverts in subtitles?

Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:04 pm

add few words from my side - it is good you are talking about ads. They not generating a lot of revenue, but on other side we have more VIP subscriptions because of it :) We have in ads something like "Become VIP member and Remove all ads..."

Also, the ads in subtitles are always inserted on "empty" space. It is never in middle of movie. What Roozel wrote - "I think placing those ads at the beginning and end is somewhat OK but not in the middle or at random points in the film" - should not happen, if yes, send me the subtitle.

If the subtitle is from tv series, there are dialogues from beginning usually. System is finding "quiet" place where ads would fit, and yes, this can be after 3 minutes of dialogue...

This is important to know, I hope now it is more clear about subtitle ads - why we are doing this, there is possibility to remove them and how system works.

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